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Skate Crowd-Funding Project


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#1 Skate Mod

Skate Mod
  • LocationToronto

Posted 26 October 2017 - 01:25 PM

Hi Gang,

 

I’m here for my second attempt at generating discussion on a crowd-funding project aimed at starting a new hockey skate company.

 

I don’t know how much of a cross over of members on this forum from ModSquadHockey where I started the discussion under my user name “Skate Mod”:

 

http://modsquadhocke...d-introduction/

 

I did not get a fair treatment not because I created a controversy although with enough data to back up my controversial proposals, but because a lot of my posts were edited by the moderators that have connection to the companies that I tried to expose so a lot of important information was left out and was critical in the discussion, information about industry secrets on pricing, ideology, cost, production methods, flaws that exists with both Bauer and CCM skates and what led us to the current position of the skate designs and the limited choice of what we have today. And more importantly what type of ideology and design solutions we need and how we will try to fix these issues if enough people will support the project.

 

I don’t see a point in repeating my mistake as far as writing critical information and being edited, so I’d like to get a general sense of the vibe on this forum about the subject matter and how do moderators behave here, is there a fair game here, will you allow any healthy discussions, by healthy I mean “no personnel attacks” and I won’t be edited, or should I move on?

 

Sincerely,

 

Boris



#2 WheelSnipe

WheelSnipe

Posted 26 October 2017 - 01:50 PM

That depends, are you going to ask for money without giving concrete details or information again? Cause that simply won't fly.



#3 JoeyJ0506

JoeyJ0506
  • LocationPittsburgh, PA

Posted 26 October 2017 - 01:55 PM

Hi Gang,

 

I’m here for my second attempt at generating discussion on a crowd-funding project aimed at starting a new hockey skate company.

 

I don’t know how much of a cross over of members on this forum from ModSquadHockey where I started the discussion under my user name “Skate Mod”:

 

http://modsquadhocke...d-introduction/

 

I did not get a fair treatment not because I created a controversy although with enough data to back up my controversial proposals, but because a lot of my posts were edited by the moderators that have connection to the companies that I tried to expose so a lot of important information was left out and was critical in the discussion, information about industry secrets on pricing, ideology, cost, production methods, flaws that exists with both Bauer and CCM skates and what led us to the current position of the skate designs and the limited choice of what we have today. And more importantly what type of ideology and design solutions we need and how we will try to fix these issues if enough people will support the project.

 

I don’t see a point in repeating my mistake as far as writing critical information and being edited, so I’d like to get a general sense of the vibe on this forum about the subject matter and how do moderators behave here, is there a fair game here, will you allow any healthy discussions, by healthy I mean “no personnel attacks” and I won’t be edited, or should I move on?

 

Sincerely,

 

Boris

 

Yes, it was definitely a conspiracy to cover up the evils of Bauer, CCM, and True that you so bravely exposed... It most definitely was not because you wrote a manifesto spewing nonsense about how these multi-million dollar companies know nothing compared to you and your infinite knowledge of what makes for a perfect hockey skate.

 

Get a grip.



#4 Dupes

Dupes

Posted 26 October 2017 - 02:16 PM

That depends, are you going to ask for money without giving concrete details or information again? Cause that simply won't fly.

 

Exactly.

If the goal of your topic is to ask for money, I would recommend using kickstarter as we will not allow this here.


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#5 Skate Mod

Skate Mod
  • LocationToronto

Posted 26 October 2017 - 03:03 PM

Actually the bigger goal was to educate the public on the process of skate development, what does it take to get it going, how much does it cost, what can be done with X amount, what can’t be done with that amount. More importantly what are companies paying now and charging you and me now. This post never made it, they deleted it, it had far more details on the problems from engineering side and solutions at fixing these problems, but again there is a lot of specific details that can’t be disclosed. What can be disclosed is the design direction, strategy and approach to fixing specific problems, what can’t be disclosed the exact materials, the exact geometric shapes how to fix these issues. So the there is a fine line here.

 

So it’s kind of a 50/50 where I’m not asking you for money directly, I’m putting up a plan where I say, if there was an appetite for a new comer in the space, meaning addition, and not addition by subtraction or elimination of current competition, and there were enough people with such an appetite, this is what we can achieve, the key word here is WE not me, and this is what can be done with 500k, this is what we can do with 3 million, based on going into specific direction of design.

 

So it’s hard to separate me from the discussion, because if another person followed the same strategy of public forum participation, their cost analysis would be slightly different and they would say, I don’t want to go in Boris’s direction on design and ideology I want to go in different direction and going in this direction if there were enough people interested in this direction it would cost this much.

 

So to sum up I’m making a proposal on what it would cost to develop a skate if someone not just me focused on specific design and direction, which is the opposite direction of CCM and Bauer.

 

CCM and Bauer know what they are doing, but it doesn’t mean it works for everybody, the same way as Nike shoes don’t work for everybody and enough people prefer New Balance, so I’m trying to put an argument here how is Nike different from New Balance but from and insiders perspective of cost and engineering side.

 

Then I offer a solution where I would say, if someone wanted to go from much broader target market approach of Nike to a much narrower target market approach of New Balance design, ideology and direction, this is what needs to happened and the cost associated with it.

 

Where I can’t separate my self from the bigger argument is the cost association, because 50% of it is mandatory no matter who is trying to develop a skate, the other 50% is how smart the person is with X amount of money and where they spend it and where they don’t spend it, so in my proposal I cover both sides, and how I would spend it.

 

 

 

Boris



#6 KidCoyote

KidCoyote
  • LocationBrantford, ON

Posted 26 October 2017 - 03:38 PM

If I was you I would gather enough cash to produce a one off concept with some on-ice testimony to back it up and then MAYBE ask random strangers to invest in you.

Have you ever watched an episode or Shark Tank or Dragons Den? You’re trying to sell an idea based on unfounded evidence without so much as a concept drawing- not a great strategy.

#7 Dishmaster

Dishmaster

Posted 26 October 2017 - 03:58 PM

If I was you I would gather enough cash to produce a one off concept with some on-ice testimony to back it up and then MAYBE ask random strangers to invest in you.
Have you ever watched an episode or Shark Tank or Dragons Den? You’re trying to sell an idea based on unfounded evidence without so much as a concept drawing- not a great strategy.


This. You would be dead to Mr. Wonderful before you even finished your presentation.

#8 Skate Mod

Skate Mod
  • LocationToronto

Posted 26 October 2017 - 04:02 PM

If I was you I would gather enough cash to produce a one off concept with some on-ice testimony to back it up and then MAYBE ask random strangers to invest in you.

Have you ever watched an episode or Shark Tank or Dragons Den? You’re trying to sell an idea based on unfounded evidence without so much as a concept drawing- not a great strategy.

 

I'm short about $300k to get to that point, concept drawings need to be A) tested in physical form, that means full skate assembly and proper testing, B) kept privetly not displayed publicly in order to have any chance of patent, without patents no investor Venture Capitalists or Angel will even pick up the phone. I'm at the end of the road where many private investors also wanted to see my prototypes - it's the chicken or the egg, the difference is crowdfunding minimizes risk, a single investor takes on the full risk of a plan on paper, that's why it never happened. And it could only happen if enough people want to see another skate on the market with slightly different approach to design and ideology. That's why I keep repeating myself it's not about me, it's about the desire of consumers, I can only execute on your behalf.



#9 NovaHands

NovaHands
  • LocationBoston, MA

Posted 26 October 2017 - 04:35 PM

Let's take a step back and ask ourselves, "will this scale?"

I'd be interested in seeing a Venn diagram correlating your profitability matrices. Broad strokes, lets bake this out a bit more and circle back when we've got a better handle on outliers.

#10 Mincy

Mincy
  • LocationGreensboro, NC

Posted 26 October 2017 - 04:48 PM

Pivot Tables... we need pivot tables

"Speak softly and carry a big stick"  Feedback


#11 90Style10Skill

90Style10Skill

Posted 26 October 2017 - 05:15 PM

That's why I keep repeating myself it's not about me, it's about the desire of consumers, I can only execute on your behalf.


Well if you're not getting any more investment then the consumers don't desire your product. I don't think the reason is anything other than you don't have a working prototype. I guarantee if your prototype works as well as you say it will, then you'll get many more people willing to invest in your venture.

Custom everything.


#12 Davideo

Davideo

Posted 26 October 2017 - 05:18 PM

Your handling of what should have been expected criticism on ModSquadHockey was rather poor. Regardless of your strategy, getting funding involves convinces skeptical investors. Not mocking them when the offer questions or criticisms. Your initial post was mostly just criticizing the skate industry and current manufacturers and then very few details on your ideas and improvements. Your answer to inquiries to provide more details was that you were super smart and have awesome ideas. Pressing further for details resulted in your name calling. Unfortunately, nearly everyone thinks they are super smart and their ideas are awesome, and very few of those people are correct. So while you may be super smart and awesome, it would be incredibly risky to "invest".

 

You will need to disclose your ideas in detail to get any funding. Whether this is to a single investor or publicly, or whatever, no one will invest without details, and preferably things like solid personal credentials/achievements, prototypes, etc.



#13 Skate Mod

Skate Mod
  • LocationToronto

Posted 27 October 2017 - 01:25 PM

The progress of any society is based on healthy discussion and disagreement, and criticism, and looking at different viewpoints, that’s how we progress. If everybody agreed on everything all the time, there would be no progress. That’s why I said I welcome all criticism; it’s good for us.

 

If my arguments were without any merit or proof then I can see it being a major issue, but when your argument is constantly edited or deleted, it does not offer an even playing field.



#14 Skate Mod

Skate Mod
  • LocationToronto

Posted 27 October 2017 - 02:56 PM

Let's take a step back and ask ourselves, "will this scale?"

I'd be interested in seeing a Venn diagram correlating your profitability matrices. Broad strokes, lets bake this out a bit more and circle back when we've got a better handle on outliers.

 

 

It’s not what you know it’s how you apply it to your specific problem, sometimes a simple rigid body + flexible body FEA via Ansys is all you need, and sometimes you need Moldflow and additional $30k - $60k for two injection molds to test both cold and hot runner in order to project your scalability and quality control.



#15 WheelSnipe

WheelSnipe

Posted 27 October 2017 - 03:50 PM

As someone who does FEA (and studied it during my masters) and works with ANSYS and furthermore, CATIA and Pro E, you need so much more than that it's not even funny. Simulations and drawings are just that, they don't necessarily project to perfect ideal products, thus why the need for prototypes is so crucial. If that's all you have, you honestly don't really have anything. Might be time to move on Boris.



#16 Wheelin89

Wheelin89

Posted 27 October 2017 - 04:20 PM

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#17 Skate Mod

Skate Mod
  • LocationToronto

Posted 28 October 2017 - 12:54 PM

As someone who does FEA (and studied it during my masters) and works with ANSYS and furthermore, CATIA and Pro E, you need so much more than that it's not even funny. Simulations and drawings are just that, they don't necessarily project to perfect ideal products, thus why the need for prototypes is so crucial. If that's all you have, you honestly don't really have anything. Might be time to move on Boris.

 

 

That's my exact point, when people say do you have drawings, we want to see more details, do you have prototypes, unless they know the full process of product development and what goes into taking a concept from a CAD drawing, doing FEA then doing 3D printing, then going back and actually making a Injection Mold so you can test the actual product, test specific chemical formulation and not just rely on the 3D printed version, this requires not only expertise in knowing who to hire with what type of skill set for specific task, this also requires understanding the full process, potential pitfalls and more importantly the cost associated with it just to get to a point of having a fully optimized functional product that you can try to patent.

 

Concept drawings are just concept drawings that could only stay as concepts.



#18 flip12

flip12
  • LocationCopenhagen, Denmark

Posted 29 October 2017 - 01:40 AM

The progress of any society is based on healthy discussion and disagreement, and criticism, and looking at different viewpoints, that’s how we progress.

 

You should take your own advice. I personally would rather not invest in a one man dumpster flamewar clickbait troll machine who can't produce a serious reply. OK, fine, you want to keep your precious details close to the vest, but then you can't even discuss general broad strokes to give hints of what you think is wrong with the current situation. You write screeds denouncing everyone else, but they're barely even legible. Now you want to lecture us on "healthy discussion?" Hilariously out of touch.



#19 fpm39

fpm39

Posted 18 November 2017 - 09:50 PM

https://www.kickstar...d-in?ref=cn4ixe

#20 flip12

flip12
  • LocationCopenhagen, Denmark

Posted 19 November 2017 - 09:07 AM

 

This should be its own thread. No need to tarnish Per Mars' work with Skate Mod's – whatever it is I'm not in a position to diagnose it.