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Pros bumping up to higher flexes and longer sticks?


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#1 60PlusWinger

60PlusWinger

Posted 29 August 2019 - 07:43 PM

Had a discussion with my buddy today, he’s a pro, to remain nameless. We were talking about how instead of the short stick or the whippy stick it seems to be reversing based on new coaching techniques and shooting techniques. Tim Turk is a pro shooting coach who works with Brendan Gallagher, preaches high lie, low flex and long sticks while you have Eichel working with STS Hockey bumping up to 102 flex now with a long Fischer pro. Ovechkin too is around 100 flex pre cut. Kane has been in 102 for a while.

#2 LankNasty

LankNasty
  • LocationHamilton, Ontario

Posted 29 August 2019 - 07:59 PM

You really need to stop looking at what pros use. They could use a Home Depot 2x4 and rip it. It’s all personal preference at the end of the day. We aren’t playing for money, at the end of the day it really doesn’t matter what we use.

"Thank God theres still a sport for middle sized white boys"

    -Derek Sutton (Youngblood) 

#3k


#3 60PlusWinger

60PlusWinger

Posted 29 August 2019 - 08:44 PM

You really need to stop looking at what pros use. They could use a Home Depot 2x4 and rip it. It’s all personal preference at the end of the day. We aren’t playing for money, at the end of the day it really doesn’t matter what we use.


That is like telling someone to not pay attention to the instructor, the example of how it’s done or the sample of implementation of proper technique and tool. Especially considering this is a gear forum. We pay attention to what works from those who work it best. If we never considered changes in technique, gear or professionals we’d still be using straight blades. We don’t have to use what they do but everyone takes it into consideration.

#4 bluhmd

bluhmd
  • LocationMichigan

Posted 29 August 2019 - 10:06 PM

I think some of what is going on is the exception and not so much the rule at this point. It is interesting to see though. But most pros are using about average flex, 80-90, and I believe it will stay that way for some time. It is interesting about the shooting techniques though and Turk is a phenomenal coach. A trend may start, but it will be slow. I think we have seen the longer stick trend with the younger kids coming up, and it will probably remain. We may see some higher flexs than we are used to seeing in some, but dont think it will be a lot. With such sophisticated equipment now, guys will have a flex for their specific play. It's crazy the way they dial in guys anymore. I played in a time of "feel" and "how it was percieved" by you shooting it. Hell, if I get a stick now and it just doesn't feel right on passes or shots, it's gone. We now have so much technology built in and slow motion shooting videos to pinpoint everything needed for these guys its mind boggling. I'm a stick nerd, so this is really interesting to follow for me.

#5 su13liminal

su13liminal

Posted 30 August 2019 - 09:40 AM

I could of sworn I saw a STS instagram vid where he was working on getting guys to go down in flex just a touch. He said it made a big difference with Eichel's technique. Who knows if Jack stuck with it or not, but Teddy Purcell made a comment on his power on chiclets podcast. "holy shit" were his words.



#6 60PlusWinger

60PlusWinger

Posted 30 August 2019 - 09:44 AM

I could of sworn I saw a STS instagram vid where he was working on getting guys to go down in flex just a touch. He said it made a big difference with Eichel's technique. Who knows if Jack stuck with it or not, but Teddy Purcell made a comment on his power on chiclets podcast. "holy shit" were his words.


Other way around. He was in 95 Flex forever, since BU in MX3 build. Tried 1st gen 1S build, ended up sticking with MX3 since except he’s in 102 now. Glenn works with Coyle too.

#7 fpm39

fpm39

Posted 30 August 2019 - 11:25 AM

Lank is right, the majority of pros could use an oar and still rip bardownski. Not to mention they’re pros for a reason, their skill level, strength, shooting mechanics, etc. are all off the charts, compared to JoeBro stinkysocks men’s league all star. You could listen to these shooting guru’s but at the same time Crosby has been using a super stiff, chopped down, almost straight blade his whole career and I don’t see him having any issues lighting it up. Not to mention you could breakdown the biomechanics of using a shorter stick and see how it puts your body in a better position skating wise versus using a longer stick.

I’d bet a the majority of pros couldn’t tell your their hollow/radius or stick build code. If they do know that stuff, they’re the exception.

#8 Wanz32

Wanz32
  • LocationKelowna

Posted 30 August 2019 - 12:31 PM

I’d bet a the majority of pros couldn’t tell your their hollow/radius or stick build code. If they do know that stuff, they’re the exception.

 

I asked a pro if he liked using the ADV construction and he looked at me like I was a crazy person, and he said "I don't know, they just make them for me and I use them"


- Always looking for new style stars gear, particularly Bauer! 

 


#9 LankNasty

LankNasty
  • LocationHamilton, Ontario

Posted 30 August 2019 - 12:34 PM

I asked a pro if he liked using the ADV construction and he looked at me like I was a crazy person, and he said "I don't know, they just make them for me and I use them"


I’d be willing to put money down on said pro being a guy that this forum loses their mind over when his sticks hit the market

"Thank God theres still a sport for middle sized white boys"

    -Derek Sutton (Youngblood) 

#3k


#10 strosedefence34

strosedefence34

Posted 30 August 2019 - 01:07 PM

I asked a pro if he liked using the ADV construction and he looked at me like I was a crazy person, and he said "I don't know, they just make them for me and I use them"

I was once describing how a skate should fit to my wife in front of an ex AHL player and she looked at him and asked him if I was right.  The guy said "I don't know they just measure my feet and hand me a pair of skates.  He probably knows more than me about this stuff".  Needless to say I did not ask him and details about his stick specs.



#11 JoeyJ0506

JoeyJ0506
  • LocationPittsburgh, PA

Posted 30 August 2019 - 01:44 PM

I was once describing how a skate should fit to my wife in front of an ex AHL player and she looked at him and asked him if I was right.  The guy said "I don't know they just measure my feet and hand me a pair of skates.  He probably knows more than me about this stuff".  Needless to say I did not ask him and details about his stick specs.

 

At that point (being a professional) your job is to show up and perform on the ice. They are going to do everything they can to take the periphery stuff out of the equation. Follow the nutrition and training plan team staff puts into place (or that you paid someone that "knows what they are doing" to put together for you.)  Most of these guys also have gear preferences that have followed them from the time they were 13/14 years old, the equipment guys maintain it, fix it, or replace it when needed.

 

I think it was in a Da Beauty League piece I read somewhere, an NHLer commented that going to the rink for his first game of the summer was the first time he had really picked up his own gear bag; the EQM guys handle all of that during the season.

 

of course, there are gonna be guys that are more hands-on with their gear, but I have to think the majority of them just want their stuff ready when they need it and don't care about the minutia of what it is as long as it just works.



#12 Nvxs07

Nvxs07

Posted 30 August 2019 - 01:58 PM

Fun little story. I had a nhl pro dm me on Twitter last night. I have one of his prostocks and he said the new batch they sent him didn’t feel right and wanted the code off the back and a picture of the curve. Pretty cool back and forth

#13 AARONSWORLD

AARONSWORLD

Posted 30 August 2019 - 02:09 PM

I asked a pro if he liked using the ADV construction and he looked at me like I was a crazy person, and he said "I don't know, they just make them for me and I use them"

 

Thats funny you have a story similar to mine. Andy Macdonald from the flyers was skating at my local rink 2 weeks ago and I asked him if he was using an actual fly lite. Hes like "i dont even know". I said read the code under your name: he said "bgp2b", I told him thats an ADV. he goes "whats that mean?"  :LOL:  



#14 Dishmaster

Dishmaster

Posted 30 August 2019 - 10:15 PM

I went the opposite way last year and dropped my flex and cut down an inch lol

#15 Dishmaster

Dishmaster

Posted 30 August 2019 - 10:21 PM

Also for everyone saying pros probably don’t pay that much attention to their stick constructions and hollow etc, I dunno about that. My buddy had a pretty decent NHL career (still playing overseas now) and he is always trying new things in the summer and tweaking. I think if you asked a carpenter to describe what kind of tools he needs, he’s going to be able to tell you why he uses what he uses and not some other brands etc, it’s not different for professional hockey players

#16 flip12

flip12
  • LocationCopenhagen, Denmark

Posted 31 August 2019 - 02:28 AM

It might also be they’re exposed to less marketed jargon than we are Advanced might just be, our newest, lightest etc.

Their decision space is far larger than the rest of us, so they’re not necessarily hearing of things in the same terms as we are.

#17 Cavs019

Cavs019

Posted 31 August 2019 - 08:42 AM

TL DR version: some guys are super picky, some guys don’t care.

At every level.

I think these skill coaches are great and guys like Oates, Turk etc obviously add a ton of value for guys looking to get more out of their game. That said, I think the one size fits all “everyone should use a shorter stick” or “everyone should use P92/P28” type guidance is kind of outrageous since none of it is objectively “better”. The best player in the world uses a straight blade. 97 basically uses a P88. Barzal and Tavares play with a heel, etc, etc. I don’t think they’re leaving anything on the table by not following skill coach protocol. It’s easy to say they’re elite talents and can play with a broomstick but I think it applies across the board. It’s all about what you’re most comfortable with IMO and what enables you to play without thinking about your gear.

#18 Maligator175

Maligator175
  • LocationChicago

Posted 31 August 2019 - 10:22 AM

It's like anything really. Some guys put a lot of thought into the little things, while others just do the job with whatever they're provided.

 

On an unscientific level: On my men's league team, we have several guys that use intermediate sticks. They have decent shots, but nothing like a guy using a 95 flex. His shots are an absolute rocket, and at least two or three times a season he gives the goalie a stinger. He's no bigger or heavier than the guys using the 67 flex. A lot of it is his shot mechanics, and the way he uses the flex to work for him. I am a smaller guy (5'10", 160 lbs), and I'm bumping up on flex. I was using 70 flex, but now I'm using 82 flex sticks. I found with the 80-85 flex my shot is harder and more accurate, IF MY MECHANICS are right.



#19 60PlusWinger

60PlusWinger

Posted 31 August 2019 - 10:38 AM

I think it goes both ways but most importantly... there’s more to flex than the shot itself. I was using a full length 77, even cut down 75 and I found while lazy or bad angle shots came off easy my accuracy dipped drastically and I played less confidently overall because my stick would flex too much on passes, shots, sometimes great other times battles were tough because my effort would be absorbed into the stick. I’ve used 82, 87, 95 and 102. My shots are absolute missles with a 95 but the next few days my hip flexor feels it. I’m in an 82 2SPro currently. Not in love with them but over time I’ll adjust.

#20 flip12

flip12
  • LocationCopenhagen, Denmark

Posted 31 August 2019 - 11:18 AM

TL DR version: some guys are super picky, some guys don’t care.

At every level.

I think these skill coaches are great and guys like Oates, Turk etc obviously add a ton of value for guys looking to get more out of their game. That said, I think the one size fits all “everyone should use a shorter stick” or “everyone should use P92/P28” type guidance is kind of outrageous since none of it is objectively “better”. The best player in the world uses a straight blade. 97 basically uses a P88. Barzal and Tavares play with a heel, etc, etc. I don’t think they’re leaving anything on the table by not following skill coach protocol. It’s easy to say they’re elite talents and can play with a broomstick but I think it applies across the board. It’s all about what you’re most comfortable with IMO and what enables you to play without thinking about your gear.


McD’s pattern is that Coffeyed Iginla JR. Gaudreau uses à stock(-ish?) P88, maybe J. Hughes as well. Just nitpicking.